|
Post by Rune on Dec 7, 2022 14:38:38 GMT
Just bought the game, have not yet tried it: The game is here: store.steampowered.com/app/1265800/Hubris/Recommended system requirements:Requires a 64-bit processor and operating system
OS: Windows 10
Processor: Core i5-7500 / Ryzen 5 1600
Memory: 16 GB RAM
Graphics: RTX 2070
Storage: 20 GB available space
VR Support: OpenXR
|
|
|
Post by Pyroth309 on Dec 7, 2022 20:09:12 GMT
Looks janky tbh. I'll probably check it out later this week. Looks glitchy and Downgraded massively from the early trailers.
|
|
|
Post by Rune on Dec 8, 2022 17:37:48 GMT
Looks janky tbh. I'll probably check it out later this week. Looks glitchy and Downgraded massively from the early trailers. Not sure it has been downgraded - it does look like this trailer: youtu.be/LIj51pN-rIE- but the game is as demanding as Reviving Lone Echo 2. Using Index res 200% and in-game settings maxed, I'm down to 80 fps with no motion smoothing. Hubris is soaked in TAA too, you may need that RTX 4090 :-) I tested the game yesterday - better than Lonn, but it's no Levitation ;-)
|
|
|
Post by Rune on Dec 9, 2022 23:30:19 GMT
My suspicion was confirmed as I changed OpenXR from Steam to Oculus/Meta.
Now the game started in the CV1. Ss 2.5 was too much, but got solid 90 fps or close with ss 2.0.
Suddenly, gone was the blur, all looked as sharp as can be with the CV1. Some lcd users complained on Steam that ambient occlusion was wrong causing shimmering textures and incorrect depth perspective. And I get that too with the Index, so issues are more profound than just TAA blur. And some places are too dark for lcd, can't see a thing.
But using CV1 all is perfect, no blur, no shimmering textures and ambient occlusion is perfect - and inside dark caves I can see everything. Even controllers work better.
I think Hubris has been in development for 4 or 5 years, it was never designed for lcd.
It feels like an Oculus game, devs even followed Oculus advice of only supporting OpenXR. Feels like a true Rift CV1 game.
|
|
|
Post by Rune on Dec 10, 2022 11:02:08 GMT
The game totally is a 10/10 to me with the Rift CV1, but I'd be pressed to go beyond 8/10 with the Index due to the blur, shimmering textures and bad blacks. DBurne may note that the game does not work with the Aero: steamcommunity.com/app/1265800/discussions/0/3722818378175543340/To me, the game is not that far from Alyx quality, hope they get it fixed. Yesterday I just took my time and went swimming ín the lake where you crash-landed. It was just awesome, very relaxing - did shoot all squids with my torpedo gun. Under water graphics also look more natural with the Rift CV1. And constantly moving I really don't notice the SDE. Btw, Blair Witch had the same kind of shimmering textures affecting correct depth perception with the Index, and it was so bad it really ruined the game - but everything looked spot on perfect with the Rift CV1. Not sure what this texture issue is about. In some games like this, using lcd/Index panels some textures get rendered in a strange way making distant textures look close to you - thus breaking immersion and depth perspective. In Blair Witch this happend to mostly gray rock/cliff textures - but using Rift CV1 this error was gone, everything looked perfect.
|
|
|
Post by dburne on Dec 10, 2022 18:25:47 GMT
Yeah I already saw earlier on Varjo discord game currently does not work with the Aero. Not a fan of SDE so won't be trying it with any of my other headsets, so will take a wait and see approach. I actually would not mind checking it out in my Vive Pro 2 but I have everything running so great with my Aero now I really don't want to risk installing Vive Console again. Was never a big fan of Vive Console really.
|
|
|
Post by Pyroth309 on Dec 10, 2022 18:58:25 GMT
There's zero evidence anywhere to suggest it's an OLED vs LCD panel thing. It's a Steam vs Oculus and Index Resolution vs CV1 resolution thing. It's also a lazy developer thing. They likely didn't optimize for an Index which is unfortunate. Hopefully they will patch some support. I'll probably pass until they do. Rather not play than play on the CV1 at this point. Not optimizing for newer HMD's is idiotic. There's hardly anyone using CV1's any more. That's one thing I'm looking forward to with PSVR 2. Everything will be optimized for it or Sony won't green light it.
|
|
|
Post by Rune on Dec 11, 2022 11:10:32 GMT
There's zero evidence anywhere to suggest it's an OLED vs LCD panel thing. It's a Steam vs Oculus and Index Resolution vs CV1 resolution thing. It's also a lazy developer thing. They likely didn't optimize for an Index which is unfortunate. Hopefully they will patch some support. I'll probably pass until they do. Rather not play than play on the CV1 at this point. Not optimizing for newer HMD's is idiotic. There's hardly anyone using CV1's any more. That's one thing I'm looking forward to with PSVR 2. Everything will be optimized for it or Sony won't green light it. You're right that no one really knows for sure why TAA does not look blurry with CV1. But Rift-S owners have been crying much about the blur in Asgard's Wrath - that's why I've been associating the blur with the many more subpixels in lcd panels (G1 and G2 owners also see the blur): www.reddit.com/r/ValveIndex/comments/di3o33/asgards_wrath_owners_of_both_index_and_rift_s/Well, still having the most awesome time in Hubris with the CV1 ss 2.0, which mostly gives me 90 fps - so Hubris with maxed out in-game settings is exactly as taxing as Lone Echo with maxed out in-game settings (but 2xMSAA, not 4xMSAA, using 4xMSAA I'm down to 45 fps with CV1 and RTX 3090). Also just got a new auto-gun - making even Dirty Harry's .44 Magnum look small I've just arrived here with my 2 friends, but seems we're late to the party: If Alyx and Lone Echo had a child, it may be named Hubris ;-) I have both Rift CV1 and Index fully connected to the same rig - they don't bother each other, CV1 works for all games using native Oculus drivers - Index takes over everything else. Also you can easily play Hubris with the Index or other lcd hmds - performance using similar res is the same as using CV1 - and the game works great using Index 80 Hz, no motion smoothing and res 200%. But there will be more blur, some strangely shimmering textures (but only occasionally these are not everywhere, mostly seen in darker caves) - and seeing stuff in the dark in more difficult. Maybe Vive Pro (oled) is the optimal hmd for this game?! Even an old Quest 1 (oled) may work wonders, who knows. Also slightly funny, but seems some Index users don't notice the blur and just play the game - of course if they don't know any better. Still being in the world of Hubris, even if blurry, is a lot better than not being in it ;-) If the game keeps up, I'll be making a similar post like this one on Reddit later - but I need to play the game more: steamcommunity.com/app/1265800/discussions/0/3722818378187094968/PS. Hubris also has climbing like in Boneworks, so it seems the devs got inspired many places. Due to the limited violence and gore (enemies evaporate into thin air when shot), the game feels close to Lone Echo for limited violence - really feels like a game originally aimed for the Rift Store, sadly.
|
|
|
Post by Rune on Dec 11, 2022 11:57:14 GMT
Note that the playtime timer only seems to work using Steam OpenXR. Using Oculus OpenXR I don't increase playtime in Steam.
So using Meta/Oculus OpenXR you may have an unlimited refund window, lol - ok restricted to 14 days after the purchase :-)
OpenXR means Meta hmd users will get great performance.
But if a company has bad OpenXR drivers, using OpenXR can provide severe drawbacks.
When climbing, don't try to pull yourself up when reaching the top platform, instead just hold on to it with both hands, and the game will automatically pull you up to standing position.
|
|
|
Post by Pyroth309 on Dec 11, 2022 12:31:39 GMT
The main thing is Developers need to let us reduce TAA amounts or increase the TAA sharpening high enough to cut through it. Having to Super sample to do it is inefficient. I also do think you're right in that having the SDE tricks your brain some to make things look sharper. Vive Pro/Quest1/OG Odyssey would have some of that effect because the SDE was still significant due to the lack of subpixels that LCD's have.
TAA becomes a crutch for developers to cut corners and smear it all together. It's really obnoxious in Unreal Engine 4 games.
|
|
|
Post by dburne on Dec 11, 2022 12:36:48 GMT
Note that the playtime timer only seems to work using Steam OpenXR. Using Oculus OpenXR I don't increase playtime in Steam. So using Meta/Oculus OpenXR you may have an unlimited refund window, lol - ok restricted to 14 days after the purchase :-) OpenXR means Meta hmd users will get great performance. But if a company has bad OpenXR drivers, using OpenXR can provide severe drawbacks. When climbing, don't try to pull yourself up when reaching the top platform, instead just hold on to it with both hands, and the game will automatically pull you up to standing position. In most cases Open XR will yield better performance especially compared to Steam VR. Depending on the CPU and GPU running it would determine by how much. Heck there are a couple of combat flight sims folks are hacking Open XR into through Open Composite to get that slightly better performance and more graphics adjustments. For me I like the simplicity of Steam VR for my combat flight sims as I don't much care for getting too deep in the woods making adjustments and testing. In MSFS 2020 which has native Open XR support though it performs surprisingly well. At least last time I checked have not flown it in a while. As much as I do not have time for it right now I hope the devs can fix whatever issue Hubris has running in the Aero, it looks like one I might enjoy.
|
|
|
Post by Pyroth309 on Dec 11, 2022 12:45:38 GMT
To further add,, TAA on UE4 is a plague for monitors too. No matter if it's OLED or LCD. Take this for example. imgsli.com/NjY1NTI/1/0This is from the game Chernobylite. You can toggle the drop downs to see the original, vs the default TAA... to an attempt to improve the default TAA called "New Taa". Both TAA versions look like someone spread vaseline all over it. You lose significant fine details. It's terrible. My main monitor is an OLED TV. It's the LG CX 48". Looking at this image comparing it to my 27" Dell Gsync There's not much difference in the TAA. I know it has nothing to do with the panels. Motion blur on the other hand... is a different story. Motion blur can be worse on LCD's due to the persistence of pixels. The fast switch LCD's in VR HMD's do a lot to reduce that. But that's not what we're talking about here because the problem exists whether you're moving or not.
|
|
|
Post by Rune on Dec 11, 2022 17:30:20 GMT
We also checked some images comparing Rift CV1 ss 2.5 vs Index res 400% in Asgard's Wrath some time ago - where the saved screenshots from the CV1 looked much sharper and less blurry. So seems the blur is in the image before it gets sent to the hmd panels.
But of course SDE may work too, like scanlines, but it is strange.
Well, I have even more awesome shots to show you - Lone Echo 2 face quality - but it may spoil things...
If sales don't pick up I guess I may make a thread on Reddit to show the full quality of this amazing game. Even if I may have to crack some spoiler-eggs to create that omelet...
The only competitors to Hubris this year are Green Hell VR and Kayak VR, I no longer consider Wanderer relevant in this aspect, even if Wanderer is great.
Hubris is made from the ground up for PCVR, while Green Hell VR is ported from PC pancake. Kayak is full PCVR too - but Kayak VR is very limited with 4 maps. So for true PCVR, I guess Hubris is the clear GOTY winner. Wanderer is not true PCVR, it arrived first for PSVR.
Btw, Hubris does come with TAA sharpening like Lone Echo and Star Wars Squadrons, but it's still blurry.
|
|
|
Post by Rune on Dec 11, 2022 17:59:33 GMT
Note that the playtime timer only seems to work using Steam OpenXR. Using Oculus OpenXR I don't increase playtime in Steam. So using Meta/Oculus OpenXR you may have an unlimited refund window, lol - ok restricted to 14 days after the purchase :-) OpenXR means Meta hmd users will get great performance. But if a company has bad OpenXR drivers, using OpenXR can provide severe drawbacks. When climbing, don't try to pull yourself up when reaching the top platform, instead just hold on to it with both hands, and the game will automatically pull you up to standing position. In most cases Open XR will yield better performance especially compared to Steam VR. Depending on the CPU and GPU running it would determine by how much. Heck there are a couple of combat flight sims folks are hacking Open XR into through Open Composite to get that slightly better performance and more graphics adjustments. For me I like the simplicity of Steam VR for my combat flight sims as I don't much care for getting too deep in the woods making adjustments and testing. In MSFS 2020 which has native Open XR support though it performs surprisingly well. At least last time I checked have not flown it in a while. As much as I do not have time for it right now I hope the devs can fix whatever issue Hubris has running in the Aero, it looks like one I might enjoy. Btw, have you tried Kayak VR, may look truly astonishing in the Aero!
|
|
|
Post by Pyroth309 on Dec 11, 2022 22:44:22 GMT
We also checked some images comparing Rift CV1 ss 2.5 vs Index res 400% in Asgard's Wrath some time ago - where the saved screenshots from the CV1 looked much sharper and less blurry. So seems the blur is in the image before it gets sent to the hmd panels. But of course SDE may work too, like scanlines, but it is strange. Yea, I've long suspected something like this is going on. The question is why? The reason I've suspected this is because of some early VR games looking much worse on the SteamVR version and unable to be supersampled at all. What is Oculus software doing different that TAA is so greatly reduced on Unreal Engine? Is Epic just sabotaging it intentionally because of their feud with Valve? Asgard's Wrath is also Unreal Engine 4. As far as Asgard's Wrath, perhaps people seeing blur on the Rift-S at first was the difference between RGB Stripe and Pentile giving the perceived sharpness effect. Either way, the developers had to reduce it and improve it for everyone.
|
|